SMF - Just Installed!
Username  
Password
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Kudo's to Joe Gleason!  (Read 2693 times)
leaycraft
Full Member
***
Posts: 101



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2010, 08:17:54 PM »

I have it on the authority of Darwin (the greatest bus driver in the world- who can do the BET if any of us forget) that  it is rare to find Cottonmouths (Agkristodon piscivorus) in Zekiah.  He stated that they are extremely seasonal and localized closer to the rivers and estuaries  in their appearance, that more common were Copperheads (Agkristodon contortrix), and Rat snakes ( various spp.) along with the odd rattlesnake.   Darwin also spoke of the snappers.

Joe I hate to ell you that beside the hospiotal and teaching jobs, I am first and foremost a Biologist and love doing field work.  I can bring my own boots.
Logged
Randal
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3389



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2010, 06:52:11 AM »

Eastern Cottonmouths don't range any where near the Zeckiah swamp, no worries there.

I listed the snakes/animals that DO inhabit the area in my article.

http://www.lincoln-assassination.com/article1.html
Logged

"It was a walking graveyard"
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2010, 10:31:08 AM »

Laurie,

After reading the Owens statement I tend to agree with you.  Given the easy access that Booth and Herold had from the pines to Allens Fresh (2-3 miles), it is conceiveable that they would go there and based on the descriptions of the men and their horses in Owens statement, its hard to believe it's was anyone else.  Here is where I'm struggling...if Thomas Harbin and Joseph Bayden didn't leave Newport until Saturday and the white boy (Samule Cox Jr.?) took the horses away toward Bryantown on Friday, how did Booth and Herold get to Huckleberry where Thomas Jones lives?  Did Jones go to Newport to get them?
Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 01:21:23 PM »

John,  Come down antytime.  It was great talking with you at the Surratt Conference and I'm eager to know your thoughts about the route from
Newport to Rich Hill.  Just a word about the critters of the Zachia Swamp.  I nomally don't go to there after May for one reason. BUGS!  Spiderwebs
in the face, misquito bites , regardless of how good your repellant works and the clincher for me was this.  One day last June,I came out of there
only to look down and say to myself "Great! now you've stepped into a pile of ants"  Only problem was that they were'nt ants the were deer ticks.  No
need to discuss the next half hour.  So , if it's ok with Randal , just ask for my cell number and web address.  I'm sure he"ll send them to youi.  Call
anytime.  Always glad to see you.
Joe   
Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2010, 02:54:02 PM »

Thanks Laurie,  Thomas Jones did state in J Wlikes that he was in Allens Fresh every day except Tuesday of that week. Nice to see he was telling the truth about
something in his book, because if the Owens statement is true(I'm pretty convinced) then Jones left a fairly interesting part of the story out of his book.  I have to
say that i'm surprised you were'nt after me with a sharp stick about my comment concerning the horses being taken toward Bryantown.  As you know, an important
topic for me is the final disposition of the horses that Booth and Herold rode from Fords Theater the night Lincoln was shot.  The Adams -Owens statement may
provide a clue.  Owens states "the horses came back this way in charge of the boy"  It doesn't mean much but considering the fact that Owens isgiving this statement inBryantown means the horses were brought back "this way".  How far toward Bryantown did the boy (Samuel Cox Jr?) take the horses?According to Owens "if I were to try to find them I would inquire of the people who saw them, Mr. A bey{robey?) or Mr. Oliver who keeps a store there."  That store was somewhere between Dentsville (halfway point between Newport and Bryantown) and present day Bryantown, probably on Olivers Shop Rd. (no kidding)  I haven't found it yet but it does seem to be the last place the horses may have been taken.  Do you know if Mr. Oliver was ever interrogated by Colonel Wells ?   
Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2010, 10:51:12 AM »

I think this store (if it existed) that MR. Oliver ran was well south of Bryantown.  I agree ,it would crazy to come anywhere close to town with those horses.  I'm going to check in the land records office of the Charles County Courthouse.  I found a list of businesses in Bryantown  (1870 ) but no Oliver on it. I have'nt read the article by Rick and Bill but I'd like to.(hint,hint Wink I would like to say in regard to the bright bay mare with black legs with spots on one foot,black mane and tail, that Owens's statement noted many of these in his descriptions of this horse, so we know at this point that the horse is not disguised.  Now we have a young boy (Samuel Cox Jr.) in charge of them going away from Allens Fresh (toward) Bryantown or at least in the direction of Mr. Oliver's store.  I'll agree,even without reading Bill and Ricks peice, that a horse can be easily disguised,but given the description of Booth's horse, that boy would need more than a tube of mascara, he would need a paintroller.  ( No offense guys.Just an analogy.  I'm not qualified to critique anybody's work on this subject, especially yours)  Smiley   
Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2010, 12:35:45 PM »

Nothing on a Mr. Oliver"s store yet but a local told that he thought it used to be a mill. A search of these two families (Oliver,Adams) did reveal something interesting.
The origins of both can be traced to the colonial period and both were in the mercantile business with each having extensive ties to the Baltimore mercantile industry.
Anyway, if the Owens statement has a "leg to stand on" and assuming that the boy came back the same way we think he may have gotten from Bel Alton to Allens Fresh ,he was within easy reach of the place where I'm searching below Rich Hill.  Either way, if it was Jr. I don't think he would try to keep them anywhere close to
Rich Hill.  Cox Sr. already had his horse "Grey Medock" taken and was ridden by Gen. Sickles for several months during the war.  The animal was noted for it's ability to completly ignore a pistol or musket being firing above it's head.  Question is ,did they take them ,or at least one of them to the swamp to get rid of it? I've sent to Randal ,pictures of the relics that were found where his photo was taken. I'll send more including mesurements. Instead of saying what they are we should at least
make an attempt to eliminate them so we can say for sure what they are not.  Thanks for the advise Randal.  So... any horse people out there?  I have a lot of questions
about stirrups and bridles.
Logged
Bronte
Full Member
***
Posts: 127


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 09:52:45 AM »

I've always wondered what happened to the horses that Booth and Herold used in the escape plot.I know most believe that Booth made Herold take them deep into the swamp and off them.I've always had my doubts about that simply because if he used a gun he would have been heard for miles and if he used a knife he would have had a hard time covering them up.I think each scenario would have been extremely dangerous.Thats just my take and like I said I'm just a novice so please correct my errors because I want to learn the real story and not so much of the myth.
Logged
Richard Petersen
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 93


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2010, 10:19:29 AM »

If you have a copy of the April and May 2008 of The Surratt Courier there are excellent articles on Horse Faking. It was the conclusion of Rick Smith and the late James O. Hall that " those two horses lived a good long life"

Logged
Bronte
Full Member
***
Posts: 127


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2010, 01:08:12 PM »

Being a horse lover I'm happy to hear that. Wink I don't have a membership to the Surratt Courier however the article sounds very interesting.
Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2010, 01:38:57 PM »

Bronte,  if I were using my noggin at the time, I would have backed up a few feet before I took that picture of Randal in the Zachiah Swamp.  That would have given a  better veiw of the short rolling slopes that lead from dry land into the swamp.  I'm standing on dry land taking his picture.  I should note that this area ,up until a few years ago, was completely covered with water.  If it happened, the animal could have simply fallen on it's side and sank in the mud. We can see this looking at the bases of the trees in the photo.  So on any give year, portions of the swamp that are covered may not be the next.  Although the swamp's tributaries run north to south, the swamp "sloshes" back and forth from east to west and vice versa, taking with it huge amounts of sediment and pretty much anything else in it's path. My point being that it was at one of these times when the farmer saw the eyeloop of the stirrup and pulled it from the mud near where Randal was standing.  This was nearly four years ago.  For the last two I"ve been trying to get everything I can on these horses.  That's how I ended up here.  These guys are great.  As you can tell ,there are  many opinions on this , and when you read about the horses it's no different.  That's why I keep at it.  Besides I do all of this stuff for fun.  No articles, books, no buying or selling of any relics.  Even though I am a bit partial toward the "farmers story" I still listen to the opinions of others.  Oh, and this is also a fairly remote place.  One house lies on this one thousand acre farm.  You might hear the shot, you just can't figure out where it came from.  Randal's photo was taken twenty or thirty yards into the woods after crossing the open field that leads to the swamp.  Hope this helps.  I had a hard time imagining what this place looked like until I saw it.      
Logged
Richard Petersen
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 93


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2010, 03:31:19 PM »

Bronte,

For the great value relating to the Lincoln Assassination go to www.surratt.org

I have a lifetime membership, but I believe an annual is around $7.00 dollars. Every month an informative aspect of Lincoln arrives. Also past bounded editions can be purchased. They also have a bookshop.





Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2010, 10:29:04 PM »

I kind of moved Randal over about ten feet or so from a spot i'm interested in.  I didn't think it would be right to fill the boots of such a nice guy with a nasty funk
that can linger for days.  I easily sank fifteen inches and stepped out before the mud flowed over into my boots.  If this place was covered with water back then I
think it may have masked the odor to an extent.  In "Twenty Days " Thomas Jones was said to have gone near the place where the horses were taken and became worried when he saw the buzzards circiling over the area.  The problem with this fellow is you can't tell when he's telling the truth.  (Must be that Code of Southern Maryland thing.)   No reason not to believe that wild animals couldn't play a part as well.  During one of our "Let's scare Gleason half to death sessions", the farmer
did tell me that there are places out there where a person of my size could sink completely. I'm 6' 3". I told him ok as long as that's not the place you're taking me.
I was kind of surprised to see how small this stirrup was , but after seeing the small slender boot at Ford's Theater that belonged to Booth it made me wonder.
Wouldn't a rider need the correct size stirrup for his boot? I'll make a point stop by the horse farm this weekend.         
Logged
Bronte
Full Member
***
Posts: 127


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2010, 08:51:05 AM »

Thanks for all of the feedback and for taking the time to explain it all in great detail.What size boot did Booth wear? I read that Lincoln would need a size 13 Nike given his height that not too shocking.I guess anything is possible so maybe the horses sunk into the swamp.If Herold killed them I believe he slit their throats because it would have been way too risky to use a rifle.
Logged
Joe Gleason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 631



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2010, 09:23:56 PM »

Laurie,  I know, and I won't.  Strange how things seem to come full circle near the end of the story.  I think I mentioned this to you soon after we met.  Each time I
walked the open fields that lead to the swamp ,I would come home with a pocketful of prehistoric stone tools ,arrowheads,speartips ect.  When I asked about them,
the farmer told me the indians left them.  Then he showed me the artifacts that he collected over the past sixty-five years.  He has thousands of them.  Axes,adzes,
manos,metates,pestals,effigies and on and on.  I contacted Dr. King not long after you told me that they might be looking for these possible"Paleo sites".  I also tried to
make arrangements to take her and her team to visit the site.  After contacting and leaving phone numbers, I have yet to hear from them about visiting.  That was a
year ago.  Some good did come of it.  He gave me full access to the site and since then his collection has grown by nearly another thousand!  I collect,clean ,tag,and bag.Then I give every one back to the farmer.  Some day somebody may actualy want to see this ,that's why the collection should stay together.  But ths just me.
Laurie,I went back down to the Linden horse farm today and spoke with the equestrian instructor/historian that manages the farm.  This is what she told me after examining the stirrup and bridle parts.  The stirrup is from a ladies saddle horse.  It is an" English" iron stirrup with an approx. date mid to late 1800s.  The bridle part
came from a double reined bridle with two bits.   
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to: